Curse

The Son Of Morgoth · Nov 11, 2005, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoolooman

The enemy AI simply shouldn't scatter from AoE.

Look at the fire and smiting lines.

The vast majority of those skills weren't designed for serious PvP. Obviously, they were designed for PvE, where we relied one thing: that our enemies would not dodge our attacks.

Think about it. Question your old skill choices and ask yourself, why did we use Firestorm? It's a horrible spell, unless your opponent decided to camp under it. Why did we use a Chaos Storm? It was worthless, unless your enemy thought it was a good idea to stand still. Why did we use Balth's Aura *ever* (it cost 25 energy for-gods-sake), unless we expected our targets to remain in range?

These PvE skills were obviously designed with stupid, stand-still enemies in mind; enemies that no longer exist.

Now, I ask you, after this patch, what purpose do these skills serve?

Nothing, I say. If we want these skills to be useful, then this change must be reversed.

YeP

and to that other guys quote on how elementists will now have to bring water knockdown spells ....... i dont think there are a lot of those that slow the enter enemy team down you know........and i dont wanna farm one guy at a time......also any GOOD elementist will learn to use the other elements........a NOOBIE one will eventually learn but i hope we are not updating a game for the noobs...

borkbork · Nov 11, 2005, 03:42 AM // 03:42

PvE was a joke when all you had to do was drop 5 Meteor Showers on anything to win missions. Even with the update, 5 Meteor Showers will pretty much stop anything.

Hella Good · Nov 11, 2005, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Geez what's all the drama about? So now you'll have to use deepfreeze and such and then nuke, big deal. All that happened was that instead of the boring max fire max storage builds, now we will see more flexibility. Yes, it is a big change for people who cannot adapt but for the rest of us, it sounds perfectly fine and I say a bit more challenging.

yslee · Nov 11, 2005, 03:44 AM // 03:44

I'm generally not too pleased with this. While there some good points (making the game more challenging, forcing new builds), there are a number of problems that'll come with it!

1. Fights are going to take much longer now - With the mobs running away from the slightest AOE spell (I mean, come on, running away from a Fireball?), it's going to be much harder to deal any damage for most classes. You'll hae to chase monsters who are doing the AoE Avoiding Cha-Cha, and that is not necessary good, because..

2. Tediousness of the PvE game will just increase. Going from Point A to Point B normally meant fighting a lot of mobs (usually 10-20). Making these extremely tedious and repitative fights even longer is just going to put people off, and that leads me to..

3. It's no longer a pick-up and go kind of game. I know the hardcore PvP players will be happy at thought of PvE players getting more "training", but some of us have different ideas on how we want to be entertained. Chasing monsters and feeling frustrated is NOT how we want it to be. And for those of you who tell us to work on new builds, I say, we don't want to "work", we just want to have fun our own way. I have enough work as it is with numbers that I don't want to crunch them in a game! GW was a game that promised a casual and fun experience, and it was, but with this new update I'm not so sure.

My suggestion is to not let the monsters run like wimps upon the first contact of an AoE spell. Like I said, running away from a single shot fireball is pretty silly. Even humans don't have that kind of reaction! I say that AI should take a few hits at least, and that the priority of moving out of the AoE damage be a bit lower. That way there's a chance they might move out, but there's also a chance they might not while they perform an action. This also will make it a bit more realistic, as I'm sure we all have been in the situation of wanting to get a spell off first before moving out of the AoE range (unless it's something like Chaos Storm or Maelstrom, I guess. :P). Also, I could do with a thinning of the mobs along the way. Having fewer, but more challenging fights, thanks to the update, will make the game a lot more fun and fresh!

twicky_kid · Nov 11, 2005, 03:44 AM // 03:44

people are missing the ENTIRE point of this update.

before update if you are a mes, ranger, or necro you are screwed at getting a group. might as well give up on mes and go pvp only for that class. necros only got in if they are batteries. rangers only got in if they where trappers.

here are my points

1. this opened the window for other classes to get groups easier. wars, monks, and eles are not the only classes on this game.

2. farming is not an effective gold machine. drops are nerfed and the more you do it the less you get. takes huge amounts of money to make the farmer and endless (boring) hours farming to even make a buck. its pointless to begin with.

3. smart people know that running is where you make the real gold. if you can tell me a better way to make 120k in 4 hours then sign me up. with the update running just got easier. GW did not make it harder to get gold they just made it easier.

4. they are combating bots and i'm all for it. i'd rather the devs ruin the game then bots ran by millionars that don't give a crap about the game or the people that took years to make it.

5. welcome to GW. the game constantly changes. if you haven't noticed this in 6 months you probly shouldn't play it. adapt or die its survival of the fittest.

The Son Of Morgoth · Nov 11, 2005, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by borkbork

PvE was a joke when all you had to do was drop 5 Meteor Showers on anything to win missions. Even with the update, 5 Meteor Showers will pretty much stop anything.

Yes of course they will stop anything like when the enemy is out of your meteor shower lol like yeah those monsters got pwned

..........yeah nothing like that crisp fresh feeling now when u just cast a meteor shower with a 25 energy cost and exhaustion just so u can get some monsters to run away from you

. maybe they should just rename meteor shower to :

Run Away Shower
-makes monsters run away from you
-basically costs 35 energy OMFG
-basically wastes 5 secs of your life

and now runners got it easier as well so expect to see like lvl 3s in ring of fire pretty soon.......

Jaia Shadowless · Nov 11, 2005, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoolooman

These PvE skills were obviously designed with stupid, stand-still enemies in mind; enemies that no longer exist.

Now, I ask you, after this patch, what purpose do these skills serve?

I couldn't agree more. The idea sold to us by by Anet, that any build would be more or less viable depending on your skill, gets less and less true every day.

There shouldn't be a right or wrong way to play any character.

borkbork · Nov 11, 2005, 03:47 AM // 03:47

If all fails, Air spike in PvE!

...Unless you want to bring out the firestorm + hamstring builds!

twicky_kid · Nov 11, 2005, 03:49 AM // 03:49

i do agree that 1 shot aoe dmg spells should not be reacted to till it hits. they should only scatter on aoe dmg spells with a duration.

unienaule · Nov 11, 2005, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Just a hint to the UW groups now, weakness is your friend.

MarkyX · Nov 11, 2005, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ard Wen

Talk about reducing the ability of a nuker

Well now its just monks and warriors

You're not a good nuker if you rely on Meteor Shower.

knives · Nov 11, 2005, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Frozen Soil

Ward Against Foes
Ward Against Melee
Armor of Earth
Frozen Burst
Armor of Mist
Elemental Attunement {E}
Crystal Wave
Grasping Earth/Deep Freeze

Wow, an ele that is a support class, who would have thought?

fgarvin · Nov 11, 2005, 03:52 AM // 03:52

DoT? What damage over time? Fire Storm, Meteor Shower, Lava Font and any number of Smiting skills are now COMPLETELY useless. Only the spike skills are of any real use, but how many affect mobs from a distance. Warriors get up close and personal, casters do not. ANet boned this away.

Damage over time skills were put in for a reason, try to remember that.

Jaia Shadowless · Nov 11, 2005, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

5. welcome to GW. the game constantly changes. if you haven't noticed this in 6 months you probly shouldn't play it. adapt or die its survival of the fittest.

Mmmm. Great marketing technique. Kill off an entire type of spell, then claim you're helping people "adapt."

IMO, the skill/spell changes up to this point have been based on unfair exploits and loophole junkies. To disable AoE or make it essentially a crapshoot to use.... that's just ridiculous.

The Son Of Morgoth · Nov 11, 2005, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by borkbork

If all fails, Air spike in PvE!

...Unless you want to bring out the firestorm + hamstring builds!

and what if your not part warrior huh? all the water slow spells are ineffective or take up an elite spot.......air spiking yes thats a real great way to farm.......one enemy at a time....... o come on warriors dont even do one enemy at a time they have cyclone axe at least lol!

i bought guildwars for a casual gaming experience in which everything was balanced........elementists were made to do this type of high damage aoe with a side effect of low armor and stuff.

warriors can take a beating and dish out pretty moderate damage.

mesmers can not do serious damage but can shut down another class.

monks cannot like be uber leet kick asz people who can never die........they can die but are good supports.

necros are good supports but get rap3d if no corpses

and so on and on...........gw is supposed to be balanced! thats one of the reasons i got it instead of World of warcraft! This is why their were jokes going around in w.o.w about their being a new patch saying that "Shamans now couldnt die" bascially people commenting on how shamans were like the uber leet and should be nerfed........ i wanted a game that was balanced and i took gw.......now it doenst seem balanced anymo

.......hopefully this update will be fixed soon of im just going to have to go back to fps and screwz that expansion( which will probably add more useless aoe spells)

Sekkira · Nov 11, 2005, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

people are missing the ENTIRE point of this update.

before update if you are a mes, ranger, or necro you are screwed at getting a group. might as well give up on mes and go pvp only for that class. necros only got in if they are batteries. rangers only got in if they where trappers.

here are my points

1. this opened the window for other classes to get groups easier. wars, monks, and eles are not the only classes on this game.

Tanks have been rendered useless, you'll now only get in if you're a water ele and the unheard of smiting monks will cease to exist. One extreme to the other.

Zoolooman · Nov 11, 2005, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

Geez what's all the drama about? So now you'll have to use deepfreeze and such and then nuke, big deal. All that happened was that instead of the boring max fire max storage builds, now we will see more flexibility. Yes, it is a big change for people who cannot adapt but for the rest of us, it sounds perfectly fine and I say a bit more challenging.

It doesn't work like that. When they say enemies scatter, they mean it. The Deep Freeze sends them spreading apart like billiard balls after a split, moving out of most of the damage dealt by a Firestorm.

Not only that, this scattering breaks aggro, making it impossible to hold enemies in place around tanks. Soft targets beware, you're going to be targeted if someone uses an AoE spell.

I see that you're falling for the fallacy of change. Remember, change is not necessarily reasonable, right, or even beneficial. In the same vein, just because something requires adapation does not mean it is reasonable, right or beneficial.

Go out into the field and compare pre-patch and post-patch nuking. The result is obvious: AoE is terribly, terribly nerfed.

Yet you're telling me to adapt. Why should I have to adapt? Along the same lines, why did AoE have to be nerfed? People are rationalizing this change after the fact, claiming "it's better this way" while appealing to hasty excuses. But in all aspects, those who praise this are missing the fundamental fact: a large set of skills made for PvE have been nerfed, and no amount of adaptation will make up for that loss.

germanturkey · Nov 11, 2005, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiQuId StEeL

[rant]
Well, I am more than likely done completely with PvE now. I had a monk, and all I enjoyed in the slightest eas heal/prot in SF groups... can anyone imagine killing a mob of bosses without a decent dmg output of an ele or two. What about that ele? All I used it for was FoW and UW in groups with my guild... deleted, I'm not going to do that crap anymore. One shot with an AoE blast and all of my spells are useless? pffft! What about that Warrior? The only thing I used it for was farming griffons in between tombs runs with my guild. Might as well trash that one too... nobody wants these goddamn W/Mo's.

Now all 3 of my uses in PvE are trash. Complete and utter trash. Yes, I could 'adapt', but what was so wrong with the AoE damage? Now guess what I egt to farm! THE COMP ARENAS! Goody... more than likely will not stick with GW for much longer.
[/rant]

quoted for truth

also, now the point of having orion as a henchmen is pointless. this guy casts firestorm left and right, and now everything just runs from it. it runs away and runs back. runs away and runs back. not only does this make people turn to the w/mo build, but it takes the fun of the game for people who have e/me & e/mo builds.

my sole character is a e/me, so now she's basically useless. i have a bunch of skills from other elements, but IMO i don't think any work as well to take out enemies as fire did... *sigh*

The Son Of Morgoth · Nov 11, 2005, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Kinda Sad isnt it

GREAT HALLOWEEN UPDATE
then.....
SUXY UPDATE WE HAVE TODAY.......

sigh im going to start calling this the Nerf that was heard around the world...... lol(if you didnt get go take u.s history)

Lasareth · Nov 11, 2005, 03:55 AM // 03:55

There certainly are ways to adapt to the change, but all spells should be useful in their own given situations. Rendering spells useless is a self-defeating task which does not contribute to the overall quality of the game.

As I haven't played, I still haven't drawn a definite conclusion on whether or not some aforementioned skills still have use... We'll see.